Homer’s great poems that are left to us today, The Iliad and The Odyssey, describe the events of the Trojan War and its immediate aftermath, events which marked the descent of Greece into a Dark Age.
This is one to print and study. I recently read a few pieces on Akhnaten 1370 BC, so will be anxious to superimpose his amazing life on this chronology. Wow, again, Cynthia. Thanks.
Socrates was a teacher of Critias, one of the Thirty, the anti-democratic despots. Your article reminded me of this popular book "The Trial of Socrates" which I read when it came out. History repeats? https://www.famous-trials.com/socrates/821-ifstoneinterivew
Fascinating history! I start out my book with Solon and the Areopolis but this adds so much depth to my thinking. So relevant, the way that occult priesthoods were able to rule over kings and militaries. David Graeber talks about secret knowledge as one of the three sources of power in antiquity; I think there's a parallel in our time. Beautiful ending quote.
We have never learnt about the economic history of ancient civilizations. We dont have accounts of companys, enterprises, banks or real estate properties of those times, do we?
I find it a fascinating article, but in all honesty I think there are some inaccuracies or statements without historical basis:
-without doubting the conspiratorial nature it could have, there are some attributions to the oracle of Delphi that have no historical basis, such as that he spoke against King Agesilaus II.
-I believe that there is no evidence that Lysander participated in all the anti-Spartan actions attributed to him here, in fact he died defending Sparta.
-the victory of Agesilaus in 395 BC. was not so exaggerated, if referring to the taking of Sardis, he certainly defeated the Persians brilliantly but did not "completely destroy Artaxerxes' army."
-There is no record that any Egyptian navy helped unblock the Spartans in the Aegean, Agesilaus was able to return to Greece after the battle of Cnidus, which destroyed the Spartan fleet and caused the unblocking when the victors of the Persian and Athenian fleets withdrew.
-Sparta indeed had a treaty with Nepherites I, who sent supplies to Sparta, but it is known that these supplies were lost or were intercepted and stolen.
-I want to believe that Plato was with Eudoxus in Egypt and the stay was fruitful, but everything else that is mentioned about the political conspiracy from Egypt is conjecture, I think.
There are some other debatable points. I would like you to indicate your sources so I can compare them. Could you tell me where I can get the text you mention, "The Truth About Plato" by Charles Tate?
Hi Anthony, you can find the article by Charles Tate with his listed references here: https://canadianpatriot.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/8102-Truth-about-Plato.pdf. As for your points where you find that you have direct knowledge that opposes what Charles Tate is putting forward please do share also your resources for this and I will happily read them when I have a chance. Also just as a note, I am not basing my understanding of this period of time solely on Charles Tate's work but the work of Herodotus and Aeschylus amongst others. Looking forward to hearing your further thoughts on these very important subjects.
Thank you very much for the link, I will read the text with the greatest care and interest. At first glance, I share the "primary sources" of Mr. Charles Tate, obviously, especially Plato's Dialogues as a reliable source to understand his thought. To all this I would add the Biographies of Diogenes Laertius as a lighter but descriptive reading. Regarding Plato's stay and activity in Egypt, very important in the context of the article and the meaning that I think it tries to highlight, I have only found scattered allusions in different texts (contemporary, or close in time), that give an idea rather general without offering many details. The quotes from Iamblichus in his "De Mysteriis Aegyptiorum" draw attention with some short but quite suggestive quotes regarding Plato, or the "Geography" of Strabo, where he expressly mentions the stay of Plato and Eudoxus in Heliopolis, a city with important schools of philosophy. I want to point out that I am in no way opposed to the content or meaning of your article or the statements of Mr. Charles Tate, I simply do not find a basis for some data that seem to be given as true (I wish it were that way and it was recorded, that would be my personal wish) and I I would like to solve it.
Yoni, I refer you to Michael Hudson’s “And Forgive Them Their Debts” to show the extent of our knowledge of Sumerian and Babylonian economics, particularly to debt jubilees and the constant struggles between the sovereign and private lender oligarchs.
This is one to print and study. I recently read a few pieces on Akhnaten 1370 BC, so will be anxious to superimpose his amazing life on this chronology. Wow, again, Cynthia. Thanks.
Thank you for the in-depth historical narrative and links to other sources on Plato.
Thank you Cynthia, it is a fantastic piece.
interesting lecture
Fascinating
Socrates was a teacher of Critias, one of the Thirty, the anti-democratic despots. Your article reminded me of this popular book "The Trial of Socrates" which I read when it came out. History repeats? https://www.famous-trials.com/socrates/821-ifstoneinterivew
Cynthia, is Artaxerxes Ahasuerus of the Book of Esther?
What did the Babylonian oligarchs do to sabotage the Jubilee? Why did Rabbi Hillel undercut the Jubilee at Leviticus 25:10?
Are the Babylonian oligarchs private creditors? How did they resist central authority successfully?
Fascinating history! I start out my book with Solon and the Areopolis but this adds so much depth to my thinking. So relevant, the way that occult priesthoods were able to rule over kings and militaries. David Graeber talks about secret knowledge as one of the three sources of power in antiquity; I think there's a parallel in our time. Beautiful ending quote.
Eureka!
We have never learnt about the economic history of ancient civilizations. We dont have accounts of companys, enterprises, banks or real estate properties of those times, do we?
Glad to see this article, thanks. A good deep dive into a very important part of our collective history.
Wrote a post not long ago loosely based on Trojan Horses but never made it as far as this relevant history:
https://kwnorton.substack.com/p/trojan-horses-tyranny-and-american?r=boqs0&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I find it a fascinating article, but in all honesty I think there are some inaccuracies or statements without historical basis:
-without doubting the conspiratorial nature it could have, there are some attributions to the oracle of Delphi that have no historical basis, such as that he spoke against King Agesilaus II.
-I believe that there is no evidence that Lysander participated in all the anti-Spartan actions attributed to him here, in fact he died defending Sparta.
-the victory of Agesilaus in 395 BC. was not so exaggerated, if referring to the taking of Sardis, he certainly defeated the Persians brilliantly but did not "completely destroy Artaxerxes' army."
-There is no record that any Egyptian navy helped unblock the Spartans in the Aegean, Agesilaus was able to return to Greece after the battle of Cnidus, which destroyed the Spartan fleet and caused the unblocking when the victors of the Persian and Athenian fleets withdrew.
-Sparta indeed had a treaty with Nepherites I, who sent supplies to Sparta, but it is known that these supplies were lost or were intercepted and stolen.
-I want to believe that Plato was with Eudoxus in Egypt and the stay was fruitful, but everything else that is mentioned about the political conspiracy from Egypt is conjecture, I think.
There are some other debatable points. I would like you to indicate your sources so I can compare them. Could you tell me where I can get the text you mention, "The Truth About Plato" by Charles Tate?
Thanks for the article and best regards.
Hi Anthony, you can find the article by Charles Tate with his listed references here: https://canadianpatriot.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/8102-Truth-about-Plato.pdf. As for your points where you find that you have direct knowledge that opposes what Charles Tate is putting forward please do share also your resources for this and I will happily read them when I have a chance. Also just as a note, I am not basing my understanding of this period of time solely on Charles Tate's work but the work of Herodotus and Aeschylus amongst others. Looking forward to hearing your further thoughts on these very important subjects.
Thank you very much for the link, I will read the text with the greatest care and interest. At first glance, I share the "primary sources" of Mr. Charles Tate, obviously, especially Plato's Dialogues as a reliable source to understand his thought. To all this I would add the Biographies of Diogenes Laertius as a lighter but descriptive reading. Regarding Plato's stay and activity in Egypt, very important in the context of the article and the meaning that I think it tries to highlight, I have only found scattered allusions in different texts (contemporary, or close in time), that give an idea rather general without offering many details. The quotes from Iamblichus in his "De Mysteriis Aegyptiorum" draw attention with some short but quite suggestive quotes regarding Plato, or the "Geography" of Strabo, where he expressly mentions the stay of Plato and Eudoxus in Heliopolis, a city with important schools of philosophy. I want to point out that I am in no way opposed to the content or meaning of your article or the statements of Mr. Charles Tate, I simply do not find a basis for some data that seem to be given as true (I wish it were that way and it was recorded, that would be my personal wish) and I I would like to solve it.
Yoni, I refer you to Michael Hudson’s “And Forgive Them Their Debts” to show the extent of our knowledge of Sumerian and Babylonian economics, particularly to debt jubilees and the constant struggles between the sovereign and private lender oligarchs.